An Instagram follower asked some questions (in red below) about Catholicism. I asked that he write contact me via email, since the answer was too long for an IG comment. He did. Below is my answer.
Hi JR,
A bit about me and then I’ll try to answer questions you posed. This will be long…but no apologies…well, it is an apology, of sorts…a defense of the Catholic faith.
My comments below, aside from my personal story, are the opinion and teachings of the Church, as best as I can explain them. They are NOT MY personal opinion. I hope to only convey what the Church teaches, not my own interpretation of Christianity. The buck stops with the Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC), which is on-line and searchable (paperbacks and hardbacks are also available). https://www.usccb.org/sites/default/files/flipbooks/catechism/
But the CCC is involved theology, and so there are organizations (trustworthy) who can explain Catholic teachings in plain language.
My wife and I were born and raised in functional Evangelical Christian homes in Michigan. Our relationship with Christ has always been very personal from childhood. We raised 3 children and now have 10 grandchildren. All but one of our children and grandchildren and still Evangelical Christians. Our middle child and her son came into the Catholic Church as we did in 1998 and 1999. The story for our switch to Catholicism is long and humorous. I’m a writer and filmmaker and together we wrote a book about it. https://stanwilliams.com/NINEVEHSCROSSING/Order-GUC.php
I don’t need to sell the book to you. If you like I’ll give you a paperback or PDF.
The switch to Catholicism had all the normal doubts, as you expressed in your Instagram post: “I just don’t get the whole Pope obsession and worshipping Mother Mary aspect of Catholicism. Focus on Jesus.”
Those are honest issues and ones both Pam and I had, originally.
But to back up, for me, I didn’t come to Catholicism because I “got” the Mary thing or the Pope thing. I have always been trying to figure out what church was the true church. Being raised in a Bible believing (Jesus) home, I never doubted the authenticity of Christ as God incarnate, or the Gospel message, or the trustworthiness of the (Protestant) Bible. My faith was always strong, and even today as a Catholic my trust in the Bible or Christ has not wained, but in fact (as a Catholic) grown stronger.
My break from Evangelicalism came in my late 40’s when I decided to resolve a life-long Christian contradiction. The problem I had, and had recognized from my teen years, was that there were multiple Evangelical and Protestant faith traditions (Baptist, over numerous variety), Methodists (several different kinds), Lutherans (there are 120 different Lutheran groups), and then a horde of different other Evangelical groups (my family was Free Methodists, which is very similar to Wesleyan Methodists, and Nazarenes. What I realized in my teen years is that THEY ALL DISAGREED WITH EACH OTHER ON THE ESSENTIALS OF SALVATION, WORSHIP, DOGMA, AND PRACTICE. Yet they all claimed to be led by the Holy Spirit in interpreting the Bible…but their detailed interpretations were all subtly different and fights and divisions broke out among the groups over these things. They didn’t disagree on the “non-essentials” as they often claimed. They refused to fellowship and worship with each other. Their disagreements were essential issues, to them. They disregarded Jesus’ prayer in John 17 that Christians all be ONE so the world would know that God the Father had sent his son into the world. But we weren’t one. We are separated and fighting. In my first 50 years of life I lived thorugh several church splits, mostly among independent churches, when the people and the pastor disagreed on what the Bible taught.
The disagreements continue to tis day and are exacerbated on social media posts like TikTok and IG.
When our children became adults, moved out, got married, and had children of their own... I had time to contemplate and research the Protestant (protesting) problem. I decided the Holy Spirit was not schizophrenic We were. But who was right? As I had before, I started church hoping, talking to theologians, and reading various protestant church documents. I was amazing how they all disagreed and yet claimed to only disagree on the non-essentials. I did that for 2 1/2 years, each Sunday always going to church (somewhere), always reading my Bible and praying, et al. My wife, Pam, continued at the independent church we had raised our children at…two of them ended up marrying out of the teen youth group there, and where the still attend yet today.
One day, (during my 2 1/2 years of research) out of frustration, and having avoided Catholicism, I walked into the local Catholic Church. Actually, there were 5 nearby Catholic Churches. I walked into the closest one and attended Mass. What happened in the next three weeks surprised me. Several of the things I had been told about Catholicism were clearly false.
(1) They did’t read the Bible….yet the first half of every Mass is all Scripture from the OT, Psalms, NT Epistles, and a Gospel.(2) Catholics don’t know what they believe…yet everyone in the congregation (which was large) recited the Nicene Creed without having to read the text….except me. I was familiar with the Nicene Creed (which is longer than the Apostles Creed) but I didn’t know it by heart and I was embarrassed.(3) Catholics worshiped saints (and Mary) and not Jesus…except the entire Mass was centered around the person and sacrifice of Jesus Christ, who was invoked more than 50 times during the Mass. (4) Catholics are into repetitive ritual and just go through the motions…I think this can be true for many Catholics, just as it is for Protestants, the rituals are just different. Some Evangelicals today will sing the same 8 word lyrics in a praise song, 50-60 times, invoking the idea of “vain repetitions.” But the second half of the Mass, while all ritual, caught my attention because it was essentially a 30-minute prayer (of articulate and uplifting words) in worship to Jesus Christ... for his sacrifice, his salvation, his grace, and God’ mercy, all ending in communion ("For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you are proclaiming the death of the Lord, until he comes again" - 1 Corinthians 11:26… and yes, the second half ot he Mass is almost all Scripture as well.)
That began my 8-month investigation into the dogma, doctrine, practices, and devotions of the Roman Catholic Church. I won’t go into it all now, of course, but there was an evening when I realized that Catholicism was Church Jesus founded, and everyone else (including the Orthodox) was protesting something that was taught by Christ and the Apostles from the first century. While I had found numerous logical and linguistic contradictions in Evangelical and Protestant Christianity (between what they stated doctrinally and how I interpreted the Bible), I FOUND NO LOGICAL OR LINGUISTIC CONTRADICTION between the Bible and Roman Catholic doctrine.
(This all happened as I was writing my doctoral dissertation that involved a deep analysis of logical and linguist fallacies…which I was able to identify in Protestantism and yet could not find in Catholicism.)
Now, that realization did not come quickly. It took me 8 months of reading dozens of books (by Catholic theologians and apologists), studying the Catechism of the Catholic Church, and comparing it all to the Bible and Evangelical and Protestant teachings. There was a moment, however, when the scales fell off my eyes, and I turned from skeptics to advocate, and became anxious to come into the Catholic Church. My wife and I have a large blog of many articles and essays. Here in the one that explains the turning point for me; it’s a commentary on John 6.
The realization of what Christ taught in John 6 was very surprising to me, because as a teen I had memorized large portions of the Gospel of John for Bible Quizzing, in which I was active for years. But I had been blinded about understanding John 6, as the link above reveals.
Okay, enough for now. This is long. Let me comment on your post’s concerns:
1. Pope Obsession.
“Obsession" is perhaps an appropriate word for folks outside the Roman Church. I don’t obsess about the pope, but I can see how others see see it that way. Here are some thoughts:
The pope’s job is not to declare doctrine or dogma, although historically that does happen, but in a very collegiate way. Never has a pope declared a doctrine all by himself. Doctrines are decided in a council of hundreds of bishops and priests from around the world who are brought together to decide what is true because of a perceived heresy that is spreading through the church. The first example of this is the Jerusalem Council documented in Acts 15. There, you will see discussion about the issue of circumcision the church was struggling with, and how they arrived at a decision…under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. They were very much aware that Christ left them an infallible guide as to what was true and false. What Christ said about their search for what is true is still in every Christian Bible today. Christ tells his disciples in John 16:13: “When the Spirit of truth comes (the Holy Spirit) he will guide you into all the truth.” and then in Matthew 18:18 “Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever you shall bind on earth shall be found in heaven; and whatsoever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.” and Matthew 16:19 Jesus is speaking to Peter, “I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be found in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.” Notice Christ isn’t saying this to every Christian, but to his Apostles and those they laid hands on to ordain and to carry on leadership of the Church.
There are other Scriptures, too, but those two will suffice for now. Never in the history of the Church has the Pope unilaterally declared a doctrine without the whole “church” discerning the will of the Holy Spirit, and coming to a decision that often has taken decades to decide. The church moves slow and always as a whole.
Consequently, it is claimed that no doctrine has ever been declared that:
a. contradicts an earlier doctrine….although there are decrees and administrative and legal decisions that are reversed once their error is recognized. But none of those are declared doctrines or teachings, but rather practices. (There is a hierarchy that goes like this: (1) Dogmas, (2) Doctrines/Teachings, (3) Legal Administrative Rules, (4) Local Practices, (5) Personal Devotions. )b. contradicts the approved canon of the Bible, when taken as a whole….the church decries the Protestant practice of taking “proof texts” to proclaim a doctrine when there are other Scriptures and contradict the proof texts.c. contradicts what was taught in the Early Church as documented in the record of Early Church teachings found in the writings of the Early Church Fathers, and of course conforms to a. and b. above.
So, what is the Pope’s job and why is he important.
a. The pope administers the church organization as the president of a country might, sometimes with the approval of councils, and others. But he cannot legislate dogma or doctrine.b. The pope is the chief pastor, and in so doing decides on the teaching emphasis for a period of time, sometimes focusing on a series of teachings for weeks on end, like a pastor might from a pulpit, or declaring a spiritual emphasis for a year (The year of Faith, or the Year of Mercy). The pope will also write major documents (Encyclical letters to the churches) that clarify church teaching in the current culture climate. (e.g. a favorite of mine: "Fides Et Ratio, on the relationship between Faith and Reason" by John Paul II. These are often written by the pope in cooperation with theologians on his staff or as advisors.)c. The pope reflects the hierarchy of Christendom. He is the vicar of Christ. He represents Christ on earth. EXCEPT the pope is not God, he is not worshiped, he sins, and goes regularly to confession.d. The pope like all CEO’s appoints bishops, cardinals, and makes administrative decisions that coordinates, and (hopefully) makes the world’s largest and longest surviving institution function smoothly. But in the end, all popes are imperfect. Some do a better job than others. Some are clearly in hell. (my opinion)
In the case of Pope Francis, we have an example of how NOT everything he says (as reported) even agrees with Church teaching. He has been roundly criticized for this spiritual and practical emphasis and his writings. John Paul II was an exceptional pope and was declared a saint soon after his death. Like many bad popes in the past, I doubt Francis will every be declared a saint. (In the USA we have had good and bad presidents, but the institution, so far, is robust enough to still exist and function.)
So, that’s a take on our “obsession” with the pope. Someone needs to be in charge. Ultimately, it’s Christ. Christ needs a head on earth to avoid wide spread confusion…as in Protestant denominations.) When everyone decides for themselves we end up with thousands of denominations, doctrines, and disunity…reinforcing to skeptics that perhaps God did not send Christ to save the world (c.f. John 17)
2. Why do we worship Mary?
We don’t. We greatly honor her as the key human in the crux of history, the incarnation of God. God became man through Mary’s willingness: “Behold I am and handmaid of the Lord; but it unto me according to thy word.” (Luke 1:38)… and all history changed. Catholic doctrines teach that we are only to worship and adore the Trinity (God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit). We honor Mary as she and Elizabeth prophesied in Luke 1. Elizabeth calls Mary the Mother of God, and Mary tells us she will be called “blessed” by future generations. These words are partially reflected in the prayers of the Rosary.
But, some will say, “You pray to Mary…that’s worship.”
No, that’s equivocation. That’s define “pray” or “praying” two different ways. Protestants (mostly Evangelicals) will define “praying” as “worship.” But the historic definition in Catholic theology, and the one used the courts of law, is to “request something of another in higher standing,” not worship.
Thus, in the Catholic sense, praying to a saint in heaven is not worship. It’s communication with those in heaven. Besides that the saints, and Mary, are not dead. The Bible teaches us this. Here’s an answer from perhaps the best source of answers on Catholicism. I know several of the men who run this long trustworthy organization, and am friends with their internet answer man: https://catholic.com
The Bible does teach that the saints are alive. Consider, for example, that Jesus teaches that the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is “not God not of the dead, but of the living” (Matt. 22:32; see also 22:23-33). In addition, Moses and Elijah are alive to Jesus at the Transfiguration and converse with him, even though their earthly deaths had occurred many years before (see Matt. 17:1-8).
We pray to the saints in the same way we ask a fellow Christian to pray for us.
To be clear, there is a common misunderstanding of what Catholic believe — that by praying to Mary, she takes the place of Christ as our intercessor before God. That is a wrong understanding. JR, as I may ask you to pray to Jesus for my need, and as you may ask me to do so for you, so we can ask saints in heaven to pray to Jesus to intercede before God for us. We say Mary is the Mother of the Church, reflecting when the Apostle John was given Mary by Christ at the foot of the cross to care for. “Behold your son, behold your mother.” (John 19:26-27) The analogy is of a child who goes to his mother and asks her to intercede to the child’s father. Mary asks Jesus, Jesus is the ONLY way to God the Father.
The charge is often made that the saints are dead. But this is hardly true. Revelations 5:8 speaks of how the saints are offering our prayers before the throne of God…so they must be aware of our prayers.
Another charge is that there is only one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus (1 Tim 2:5). But this in no way means I can’t ask you, or a saint, to pray for me. Christ is still the only mediator to God the Father.
Your last note was
3. Focus on Jesus
You are totally right. And the more you know about Roman Catholicism, the more you’ll discover that focus is the sole role of the Pope, bishops, and priests, and people like me who defend the Catholic faith. It is all about Jesus, his life his passion, death, resurrection, and reigning with the Father today. I would encourage you to attend Mass on a regular basis and discover how the Mass is entirely dedicated to Christ. But be wise. Occasionally, like today,** the Mass celebrated Our Lady of the Rosary….and to the uninformed it may appear as if the Mass was all about Mary and our worship of her. WRONG!
We honor Mary greatly because everything MARY DOES POINTS TO JESUS. Remember at the Wedding at Cana, she tells the servants who were serving the wine, “Do whatever he tells you.” Mary tells us the same thing. DO WHATEVER JESUS TELLS YOU TO DO.
Also, although you didn’t ask, the Rosary prayers are all about mediating on the life of Christ thorugh the eyes of Mary. More about that another time, or you can look up on the Internet how to pray the Rosary. The repetitive “Hail, Mary” (which is found in Scripture) is only a pacing device while in our minds we contemplate being with Jesus and learning what Mary learned at His side. It’s about Jesus.
Notice this important thing about Mary. God came to man in the form of Jesus Christ THROUGH Mary. Mary was the conduit, the vessel God chose to present Jesus to the world. So, it would seem natural that Mary would be a conduit for us to approach her Son, and through her Son...God.
** We typically go to Mass most days of the week…weekday Masses are shorter than the Sunday Mass, which are also shorter than special festival Masses like at Easter and Christmas which are hours long.
Blessings,
Stan WIlliams
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